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D**K
On the book, and people complaining that it's a psychopath how to guide...
Let me say that the rules in this book are tried and true throughout history, and are still being used successfully to this day. Now a lot of people are complaining that this book is a how to guide to being a sociopath. If you approach it from the perspective that you should follow every rule to the T....then yes, this is that, but the reality is that you should take note on these tactics and employ them piecemeal to succeed in seduction and gaining power. You can use these tactics for good as well. Robert Greene himself when asked if he follows all of his rules he said: “Everyone assumes I practise all of my own laws but I don’t. I think anybody who did would be a horrible ugly person to be around,” ..... So use these tactics to succeed. Hell the dating aspect can be used to make sure good people don't get seduced by psychopaths, and you can employ this to get someone you like while help them avoid the genuinely bad.
B**L
Sensationalist musings on the dark side of human nature; not to be taken as a guide
This book is formatted as a list of principles of seduction, with each principle having its own chapter full of stories, quotes, and historical anecdotes. The writing style is sensationalist - the best way I can describe it is to imagine that a cartoon supervillain is giving you advice on relationships.It is interesting, but it would be foolish to see it as a literal how-to guide for seduction.The reason I say this is that if you take the "principles" too literally and try to apply them without discretion to your own life, you are likely to burn yourself and others while attracting mostly insecure or naive people into your life. In other words, don't go overboard with the edginess that this book espouses, because it's a spice used by the writer and (I hope) not meant as genuine advice.Instead, I suggest this book is best seen as food for thought - a collection of musings and stories on select topics with a Machiavellian twist. It's got plenty ideas about the dark side of human nature for the reader to chew on; for example, the idea that desire is mimetic, the idea of "planting seeds" through suggestion, and the idea that playing on peoples' desires and subtly promising to lead them to their dreams is a quick (albeit immoral) road to their hearts.You may get more value out of this book if you consider it as a story-collection rather than a dating guide. Don't take the book's "advice" too seriously!Final verdict:7/10 would not recommend, but kind of interesting
T**.
A Very Long, but Worthwhile Read (and Review)
This is going to be a long review, so don’t bother reading unless you want a real verdict.The first thing you might have noticed when fixing your gaze on my post is the attached image. I’d like to point out that this book did in fact come in good physical condition. As a matter of fact, the reason I post my book, with the gold-colored lettering faded and the pages tattered, is to demonstrate just how interesting it is, whether you agree with the message, or tone, or not. I just finished this book this morning, and I do tend to juggle two or three books at a time, but what I noticed I did with this book was something unique to my usual reading habits; I took this book nearly everywhere. Anywhere I went in which I expected a period of time to sit idly, I bought this book. Almost always bought to work with me (even if it sat in my car and I didn’t read it on break every time, I wanted to know it was there in case I wanted to read it), to the mechanic if I was sitting around for a lengthy fix, when I was still in college, I would read it on breaks between classes. I will say this to start - this book is engaging. The subject matter is fascinating and Greene does do it a service by going in depth, which as I’ll reveal at the end of this review, is also the book’s greatest weakness.Now, as for the subject matter and tone, let me address this in as blunt a manner as I possibly can. I am certainly not a postmodernist progressive, this is the framework I imagine this kind of cynical Machiavellian utilitarianism comes from, the “ends justify the means” school of thought is the dominant idealogocial lens here. Some may be uncomfortable with it, and I don’t blame them. We live in a [mostly] civilized world, and if we were all certain everyone was a scheming sociopath, our world would be in even greater bedlam than it already is. I’m a rather conservative man, I believe in some degree of honesty, and morality. I’m also a hedonist when it comes to consensual erotic pursuits. I enjoy dabbling in degeneracy, if it adds any veneer of legitimacy to my words when discussing such a potentially subversive topic, and especially in the way Greene does. That said, as some other reviews have mentioned, I believe this book has SOME universal truth to it, but as a whole seduction is not the only truth of our capacity to love and interact with others. Notice how a large portion (I can’t be bothered to tally them all up and give you an exact percentage but I’m confident it would be greater than 50%) of the accounts given as examples are from 18th and 19th century France, be they historical or literary, and of a specific social class. The nobility was the embodiment of the kind of spoiled celebrity culture we have today in the form of something like TMZ, with the sons and daughters of kings, queens, dukes, nobles, and even just independently wealthy families all being spectacles for the peasantry and lower working classes who generally outnumbered them. The kinds of boredom that lead to these flights of fancy come from people who are easily identified by a healthy enough mind as inherently flawed, broken, inherently unfulfilled. I like to point this out to others who I talk to about this book because it’s a great example of how people who never had to struggle behave when left to their own devices. Granted, there are examples from more modern times, like Errol Flynn, Duke Ellington, and JFK, but they all play on that inherent status that these men achieved, and there is an undeniable separation between us, the “commoners” of our time and these men, ascended to levels of admiration that brings them attention and status that would make seducing anyone even a little easier. This is one of my two major complaints about this book - I don’t know when Greene began writing this but with online dating and such a strangely changed world, this book, originally published in 2003 as best I can tell, is missing a large chunk of insight about how these principles might apply to a modern disposable dating world. We do not fancy this kind of drawn out courting anymore. It is not the norm to have sophisticated flirting in exotic locations, because most people are not wealthy celebrities or royalty. Now again, these examples play with some inherent truths and can be applied on a smaller level to the average man or woman, but I’d be lying if I didn’t at times feel excluded by the stature of those being given as examples.Getting back to the morality and methodry of the book, yes, it is shamelessly utilitarian. It does read like a Harvard educated Dennis Reynold’s guide to seduction. As for it being offensive to the point of being a bad read or a bad product for existing - that’s just ridiculous Nancy Reagan level virtue signaling nonsense. Even I laughed at some of the quotes Greene included, there was, towards the end of the book, a quote something to the effect of “a mutual romantic encounter is never a seduction”. I understand how the more morally centered could read that as problematic and rapey, but can you deny that when it comes to non-serious relationships, for those of you critical to the subject matter, that some of the ideas discussed here were not in play? Certainly, the author has what can be described as an apathetic outlook on humanity, that much I disagree with. In spite of the edgy style of writing, can you honestly say that what is being told is untrue, if not exaggerated?My second issue with this book, and with Greene’s style in general (I have another of his on audiobook and I experience the same problem despite the easier to absorb format) is his writing style. Now, as you can tell, I’m verbose myself. I can’t help but pour as many details into a point as my mind can craft while typing or speaking them. Even I, however, can recognize the value of brevity when it comes to dispensing advice on matters of social conduct and arguably, philosophy. I mentioned earlier in my review that I enjoyed reading this book, and I did, because of its subject matter. It is well written, and it is backed up by historical accounts, which is what Greene is educated in. But, between the library of quotes and excerpts in the side margins of nearly every page, and the excessive examples for some chapters, this book does become a slog to read through. Again, I enjoyed reading it, but only when I was in a specific mood to do so, hence my bringing it everywhere with me, should the mood strike. This book is like hard liquor. You might enjoy the odd glass or two, or a cocktail, but unless you’re an alcoholic, you’re going to stick to a lighter drink on most nights if you must drink at all. I appreciate the length Greene contributes so that his historical knowledge works in tandem with his wanton philosophizing, it reinforces his arguments without having to point to some vague social statistics that probably don’t exist or aren’t reliable enough to back up his claims in a “sanitary” enough scientific way - but damn if this book doesn’t grind on you if you don’t read it in bursts, which I imagine most people will want to do. And those bursts come sporadically (for me at least, and keep in mind it took me over a year to finally finish this book especially while I finished my last two semesters of classes). After the first couple of chapters I stopped reading the quotes entirely. I appreciate his inclusion of them, but perhaps he would have been better off placing them at the end of each chapter as an optional package, instead of formatting the book in a cluttered way that almost induces an anxiety to finish the page before you’re overwhelmed by text.In sum, I’m morally dubious myself when it comes to the number of pursuits I’ve had and will have. I get it. I also agree there is room for what Greene decries as “awful” habitual love, for building a life together with someone, children and all, is NOT a matter of a lighthearted “game” as is his description of seduction. If the educated but naive read this book they may find themselves goaded into a life of casual sociopathy, and that’s not what I hope Greene intended to do here. He makes no mention of this, which is why I’m hesitant to assume his intentions, but I’ll add for my sake and for others who have read or are curious about purchasing this book - these principles are not rock solid laws. You have to apply a dose of reality to them. You can’t just whisk away a girl you matched with on Tinder to Paris, let alone to another state, with no planning or investment. They’ll think you’re coming on too strong, and you probably can’t afford to take a two week trip to Paris for a random tryst. I believe Greene would benefit from coming out with a sequel book (hopefully a much shorter one so as to not retread too much of what’s already here) on the modern era of dating and seduction.Overall I give this book 4 stars, though on the wrong day I may have given it 3.5. It is certainly a good book, it is well written and informative. That’s not the problem here. The problem is the length in relationship to the structure, and the tone which can be offputting if you aren’t someone prone to frequent casual sex. I get it, but Greene either doesn’t, or doesn’t care. For the last section of the book (Appendix B) being about selling things to the masses, I wonder if Greene thought his book would be controversial or not. Still worth a read, but consider this wall of text before or as you do before purchasing it or rendering a verdict.
C**.
The worst reading experience of my life.
Got the regular ol' paper back version - not the mass market.And still - thin cheap pages crammed with text. It's designed really weird like they overpaid some junior designer. Looks like a bible church's buy in bulk to fill the pews.I have normal reading eyesight and have to squint / hold the pages inches from my face. I'm returning this copy for the Kindle version and my preference is nearly ALWAYS a physical copy.
E**H
Delightfully entertaining and enlightening, this is another great one by Robert Greene.
If you want to know people, look at what they do, not what they say. If you've ever been baffled by why people make the choices they do in intimate relationships, get this book. It will help you understand a lot about human nature. It will not only help you protect yourself, but the information contained in it can be used to keep the romance alive in your intimate relationships. I loved the historical illustrations and the great references to literary classics that will surely be on my TBR list. Robert's Greene's brazen language is intoxicating (seductive as well) and invites you to take a stroll in the dark recesses of the unconscious and explore the depths of your shadow. It was more interesting than the 48 laws of power to me.
B**R
Scary, but better have and not need than to need and not have.
It’s fairly insidious, but if for no other reason than to recognize the techniques, it’s very useful knowledge. Great book.
D**A
Seductive best
Just for a moment forget about this book. Take a pause and try to recall whether you have experienced anything related to what I am going to mention in the next few lines. Have you ever encountered anybody who is a little aloof at first and starts building a comfort level with you slowly? Slowly and steadily, their conversation makes your self-esteem high, increases your self-worth. In other words, their words start making you empowered and important. You begin to feel relaxed and comfortable in their presence. You start relying on them for direction and support. They use indirect flattery and silence to build tension. They also reveal their tender and compassionate side. Your inner spirituality, beauty, and vulnerability start getting targeted. You are absolutely smitten and infatuated with the way they are and how they make you feel. You were seduced if anything of these has had happened with you. Thousands of years ago, only a selected few had power. The power could be obtained either through violence or brute strength. It was a male domain and anybody who had no way to compete with them were the women. They suffered immensely both politically and socially. They never had any weapons at their disposal. However, women also realized that men had one weakness. It’s their insatiable desire for sex. A woman can completely captivate a man by toying with their desire. History is repleted with many such examples. They invented seduction. They would tease a man’s imagination and stimulate their desire. In the process, they also lure the men away from the masculine world of war and politics. Men found them not only beguiling but useful as well. Seduction was used as a subterfuge tool by women. Later, men too started developing their own version of seduction. Seduction is a long journey and the author has broken it into mental, emotional, and physical seduction. We will touch upon a few of the points and in between also discuss history's greatest seducers. If you have watched the HBO series “The Rome”. then you will find one of the most interesting characters was Cleopatra. She had battle-hardened Julius Caesar and Mark Antony under her spell. As per the written materials available, Cleopatra is often described as physically unexceptional. She could transform herself into a one-woman spectacle. Her dress and makeup always gave her a heightened and goddess-like appearance. Her voice was lilting and intoxicated. The listener would not remember what she said but how she said it. She was aware of her mesmerizing impact on powerful men and used it to her advantage. She is considered to be one of the greatest seducers. The relationship between a seducer and a victim starts with mental seduction. It’s not necessary that seducers always have malicious intentions. If someone is most sought after and people compete for his attention, then there is a likelihood that his aura of desirability is going to envelop the victim. If the distance with a seducer seems unattainable then the object seems more prized. The seducer also makes the victims aware of the adventure and romance that are lacking in their lives. It gets the victims interested and they see the seducer as someone to fill the void in their life. The interest turns into desire. The seducer when indulges in the victim’s moods and wants starts delighting the latter. The victim’s thought is completely occupied by the seducer. The artistic use of words will further intoxicate the victim’s mind. It will then stimulate fantasies, titillate their senses, and distract their mind.Do you remember the iconic scene from the movie- “The Seven Year Itch” where Marilyn Monroe's skirt blew up? The men went crazy and the scene is still being discussed. Her on-screen persona made men crave for her. Even her off-screen image was similar. She spent part of her childhood in orphanages. One day, while wearing a white blouse provided by the orphanage, she found it torn. She then borrowed a sweater from a younger girl in the house. The sweater was too small. After she went out, the boys gathered around her wherever she went. In her diary, she wrote, “They stared at my sweater as if it were a gold mine”. It was a revelation and later she however sensed a way to gain attention and power. She started to focus more on her dresses, looks, and makeup. The result was more startling as without having to say anything, men passionately fall in love with her. She had a childlike voice but she learned to make it truly more seductive. She made another interesting observation. She said “It was my fault, they're wanting to kiss me and hug me. Some said it was the way I looked at them- with eyes full of passion. Others said it was my voice that lured them on. Still, others said I gave off vibrations that floored them”. She is another seducer on the list with a profound impact on men.Emotional seduction follows mental seduction. Too much routine and familiarity can be stultifying and initial excitement peter out. The seducer avoids any hints of routine and familiarity and creates a mystery. They poeticize their presence and deliberately keeps a little distance. The absence makes victims obsessed. The seducers make the victim realize that they are actually living some of the fantasies that are stirred up in their imagination, which makes them ecstatic. They give them only part of the fantasy. The victims keep yearning for more.One person who deliberately used seduction to destroy her adversary was Chinese Siren- Hsi Shih. She is considered to be a quintessence seducer. In the fifth century, there was an intense rivalry between Kou Chien and Fu Chai. Kou Chien chose Hsi Shih and had her trained in the arts of seduction. Fu Chai found her presence, mannerism, and nonchalant air too irresistible. He fell deeply in love with her. She drove him to distraction. He built palaces for her, spent all his time with her, and satisfied her every whim. He was completely under her spell. This allowed Kou Chien to march on and conquer and vanquish Fu Chai’s kingdom without much of a fight. She had a devastating effect on men. Her scents, her voice, her movement, her conversation, her artful glances, and embroidered gowns; everything contributed to her charm and magnetism, which completely made men weak for her. First, the seducer had an impact on the mind of the victim and then emotions. What next follows is physical seduction. The victim now is already weak and ripe with desire. They will follow the seducer with impatience and erotic energy. Any kind of signals from the seducer is too tempting and increases the sexual desire of the victim. The victim now is brimming with desire. The erotomania reaches the zenith. The victim is completely under the spell of the seducer and feels too powerless to resist.It’s now time to shift our attention to a male seducer; a well-known one. He was Casanova and considered the most successful seducer in history. If a woman he meets fire his imagination then he would study her, go along with her moods and find out what’s missing in her life. He would then provide it. Casanova adapted differently depending upon the person. He would adapt himself to women’s ideals and brought her fantasy to life. Once the lady had fallen under her spell, a little calculation would turn it into romance. Casanova always seeks young women who were unhappy. It’s because they appealed to his desire to play the savior and also responded to any necessity. Seduction is not only gender or personality-specific. When it comes to men, it is not only the exclusive domain of people who are macho. In history, most seducers have been women. The author comes up with nine types of seducers. The two most important things are knowing your greatest asset and understanding your victim's weak spots. It’s then your perfect strength can be mapped to the victim’s fragility and the author draws an analogy between these two to drive across his points. Seduction is also considered an art that requires patience, focus, and strategic thinking. Robert Green’s book requires maturity. First-time readers may find him nasty, manipulator, iconoclastic, or an evil schemer. Let’s accept that all the world’s inhabitants are not honest and sincere in their dealings and they never were. In a true sense, sanctity was never there. Most of us have a grey side, irrespective of our status, nationality, and profession. What the author has done is to bring the actual truth in front, however bitter it may be. He has not set out to challenge any dogma or axiom. Just treat this book as an interesting study of human behavior. It’s just a pattern that you can recognize in yourself and others. Please don’t bring morality here. You are well within your right to avoid the subject. I have been a die-hard fan of Robert Green and find this book extremely absorbing and interesting.
A**R
Misleading
If you want a series of tips and hacks to improve your seduction, this is not your book. If you want a compendium of stories of great seducers along history, this may be your book. I found the book to be lacking in practical and everyday actions you can undertake to seduce someone. Much more could've said in much less pages. 90% of the book's content is stories of individuals who lived with cultural environment and rules set in a time far long gone. Mate, this is the age of Tinder and match.com, I can't be a***d with how some bloke from the Romanticism seduced a bored bourgeois lady in only four months. Get out.
J**T
A really bad book everything not to do if you want true love
This book describes every pshychological trick to coerce someone into thinking they love you... it is I feel the worst of human nature and does not procure a good lasting relatioship with respect and understanding.
T**N
What is the point of this book?!
I’m by no means a slow reader, but this took me years to complete! I found it incredibly hard to follow, jumping from tip to tale (all from the old ages with no real relation to modern day!).In all the book was incredibly frustrating to read, and I found myself thinking “why am I reading this?!”If you’re after tips on seduction, I’m sure you can find better books!
S**A
Best book I read ever!
I had to read in more than once to remember most of the advice.It really thought me how to be more attractive and intelligent.Also, how to avoid being seduced by the wrong people myself, while seducing the people I want.
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